Inspirational legal women: Carola van den Bruinhorst

Sara Carnegie (SC): I'm here today with Carola van den Bruinhorst, a role model and inspirational legal woman from the Netherlands. It’s great to speak with you, Carola, and I’m delighted you’re taking part in our Inspirational Legal Women podcast series to celebrate some of our incredible members and their achievements and career in the legal profession. 

By way of introduction, you’re a Dutch lawyer and you’ve worked with law firm Loyens & Loeff for over 20 years, during which time you’ve increased your focus on transformation issues and development for partners. I know you’ve done a huge amount about that, and we’re going to hear more on those issues and your career in a few moments, but I should also acknowledge that you’ve been a member of the International Bar Association (IBA) for many years, contributing in so many areas and generously giving of your time, including being a member of the Management Board and Chair of the Legal Practice Division (LPD), the largest division of the IBA. I also wanted to note, before we start, your incredible work in establishing the IBA’s Diversity and Inclusion Council, which I believe you started in 2018. I certainly recall coming to a very early meeting which you and Sarah Hutchinson chaired in Budapest in 2019, which was only a few months after I started the job, and thinking you were quite remarkable there. 

And so, we’re here today to talk about what you’ve done, some of the challenges and experiences you’ve had, different places where you’ve lived and worked, and any advice you may have for women entering or navigating their own career in law. So welcome Carola. 

Carola van den Bruinhorst (CVDB): Thank you, Sara. 

SC: We’ll start off really with the beginning, I guess: what motivated you to pursue a career in law and how did you decide what type of law was of most interest to you? 

CVDB: I never really dreamt of becoming a lawyer. It wasn’t a career that I was specifically considering when I was a child or later. My dream was to become a journalist and that could have been a very good career path for me as well. But at the time, when I had to choose where to go to university, journalism was a school and I really wanted to go to university because I was fascinated by problem-solving and understanding systems, and then that led me to the law. So, it was really intellectual challenge that I was looking for. 

When I progressed, I found myself being drawn to corporate and tax law, again, due to the intellectual challenge and the impact that it has on businesses, which was also the reason why I joined a law firm in the end. So, I was a partner in the firm for 20 years and then my role expanded more to leadership and to talent development and other management roles, and that became just as rewarding as the legal work itself. 

So, my path has been quite atypical. I spent a lot of time abroad for the firm. I was involved in many different roles internally, as well as in external initiatives, and ultimately, I found my profession in driving change within the firm and the legal profession. So, the journey was more about discovering my passion while working as a lawyer. It was not really following clear and early vision, but I found it in the end. 

SC: I think that’s often the way for quite a few people. They may start off thinking the path is linear and then divergence arises and different opportunities appear along the way. And I think it’s always fantastic that people try those different things and probably have an enriched career as a consequence. How have you balanced the demands of such a high-pressure career with your personal life and personal responsibilities? Are there any things that you could recommend to people that have been particularly helpful to you? 

CVDB: For everyone with a very busy career, with lots of pressure externally, definitely a challenge and our personal life is just as important, if not more important. It is a balancing act, absolutely, especially when we work with demanding clients or when we manage large teams or, in my case, when I was leading and often in different countries. It starts, I think, with delegation. Effective delegation has been key and I’ve always made a point of trusting the people that work with me: so trusting my teams and empowering them, giving them the opportunity to grow. That was the case in managing complex client matters, but also in overseeing firm initiatives. I’ve always enjoyed working with my team, but that’s only possible when you really trust them and give them opportunities to grow and to empower them. So that’s one element of this balancing act. 

Another important thing is to prioritise and know what’s important and then to set clear boundaries. And that really helped me to stay focused on both my professional commitments, which were many with all those different things that I pursued in my career and my personal life. So outside of work, I’ve always made time for activities that help me, rejuvenate me, that I find important, and make sure to live a healthy life and to regularly work out. Finally, travel, as it literally broadens horizons and brings me to different spaces. 

SC: I think the clear boundary-setting is absolutely vital. I do think sometimes it can be challenging for junior lawyers to do that and wonder whether that’s something that you've always been able to somehow achieve or whether it’s become inevitably easier as you get more senior? 

CVDB: It is easier when you get more senior. It is definitely easier also because as you get more senior, then you’re more in charge of your own diary. That helps a lot, of course. So, I understand that it can be even more challenging for junior lawyers. When we get to advice, I think – to junior lawyers, female lawyers – in any event later, it is very important to speak on that as well. 

SC: What’s been your biggest challenge that you’ve faced and how have you managed to navigate that during your career? 

CVDB: I’ve worked as a partner in an international firm for decades. There have been many challenges. Becoming a partner was one thing, of course. Surviving as a partner in the early years was a real challenge, too. It was in the late nineties, early 2000s, and I was the only woman partner in the Amsterdam office at the time so that was not easy. But, you know, I managed. And going to Hong Kong, of course, I was asked to set up a new office for the firm and that also really meant exploring new markets in China and across Asia. That was challenging too, but a lot of fun. 

Maybe one of the biggest challenges, but also one of the more rewarding things I faced in my career, was over the past five years when I took on the responsibility of setting up and implementing a partner assessment and a partner development programme. That was a challenge, of course, you can imagine that there was some resistance, particularly from partners who were initially reluctant to embrace performance assessments and feedback on development areas, but at the end it was also one of the most rewarding experiences as the programme really led to a significant shift in behaviour and mindset across the firm. And it did not only enhance individual growth but also improved the firm’s overall performance. What we have accomplished as a team is quite unique in the legal industry.

SC: You feel perhaps that programme has transformed the culture of the law firm, would you say? 

CVDB: It’s the first step. The firm has a strong culture, but it definitely has changed behaviour in the sense that it has made partners more aware of the impact that their behaviour has on others. And that’s a great first step in changing the culture and leading the firm towards a more transparent culture where feedback is more normal and being embraced, and that can only help people grow. 

SC: Absolutely, I think that’s pivotal and for leaders to be able to exhibit those traits about being aware of the impact they have on others, demonstrating empathy. It’s so important and I think with generations that come from behind us, you know, they’re really looking for that, they expect that. 

CVDB: Exactly, I think is it confirms the importance of good leadership and of organisational change and that’s also why I decided to pursue the Executive Master in Change programme that I’m currently following at INSEAD in Fontainebleau. Because when I realised that, that that was what my programmes were all about, I really wanted to deepen my understanding of human behaviour and the dynamics of organisational transformation so that I could continue driving change with impact in the future. You mentioned younger generations; what I'm very happy now to share with you is that I’m starting to work on my thesis which is exactly that topic. It is the potentially generational disconnect in law firms and the impact that this might have on the conventional partnership model, so I think a hugely relevant topic for the legal industry at this stage. 

SC: That’s wonderful because we need to create an evolving environment, which our new generation of lawyers can feel entirely comfortable within and also empowered by, and you used that word earlier, and it’s such an important word. Particularly in an environment where everyone’s quite competitive and everyone’s very busy, the ability to trust and empower is so important, both for the growth of another person, but also for your own mental wellbeing and being able to let go a little bit and not feel you need to have control over everything. So, I think that was a really important point that you made there, and I was glad to hear it. 

I wondered whether you found it in any way more challenging working in a male-dominated environment, because you mentioned being the only female partner in the late nineties and early 2000s, which I can well imagine would have been tricky to manage at times. How do you think you did that? Do you think you had to adopt more male character traits in behaviour? If you can give us any insight into how you succeeded. 

CVDB: There was a time that women were expected to lean in, and now I feel very different about it. I don’t think that women should lean in necessarily. I think they should stay true to themselves and to remain authentic. But it is important to be assertive, it is important to establish credibility, and that’s not easy in a male-dominated profession at that time specifically, but I think it comes down to consistently demonstrating competence, integrity and collaborative approach. For me, it was important to stay confident in my expertise, where you can indeed demonstrate your competence, to become true to myself and also to take on roles that had a visible impact, such as moving to Hong Kong to set up a new office for the firm and to lead the Asia-Pacific regional presence of the firm. 

Taking up leadership roles within the IBA made me very visible as well. As you said, I’m now immediate past Chair of the LPD and a member of the Management Board, and that has given me a lot of visibility in the legal profession but also within the firm, and that helps in establishing credibility. 

Other examples were being active in diversity inclusion. I set up the Diversity and Inclusion Council at the IBA, but also at Loyens & Loeff. I make sure to speak up in meetings to try and offer thoughtful input and to be assertive when necessary, but without compromising my diplomatic style. That’s also what I meant, remaining authentic and true to yourself. And I think it’s great that to continue to be proactive in mentorship and supporting other women in the profession, and that’s a good and powerful way to build both credibility and a sense of community. 

SC: A very important point: how to navigate that challenge of being both diplomatic but assertive. Sometimes, I think, particularly women can struggle with that because you can be labelled and it can be, in certain environments, depending on individuals, something more of a challenge for some. 

You’ve given us a number of insights there into how you would advise women in their career to essentially navigate their path through the environment that they find themselves in. Just as we draw to a close here, is there any final advice that you would offer to women beginning or still pursuing their career that you’d like to just end on? 

CVDB: The best advice, I think, is to remain authentic and true to yourself and to your values, but also be adaptive, adaptable so to say, without too much trying to lean in. It’s very easy as a woman to feel the pressure to conform to a certain mould, but always check if those behaviours resonate with you, which means that you should try to stay confident in your own unique perspective, in your own approach, whether that means focusing on leadership in a different way or being more collaborative or any other way. 

A crucial piece of advice is to build a strong network of mentors, both men and women, and they can offer guidance and support and insight. I would like to give an example. I was at an IBA event in London, and I spoke to a young woman and later she reached out to me, and she asked if I wanted to become her mentor, which was really nice and I encourage all women to do that because nobody will say no. It’s flattering because she explained to me why she wanted me to be her mentor and, of course, you’re flattered and everyone wants to help others if an appeal is made to them. 

And that brings me to my next piece of advice: that is it’s very important to speak up and say what you want, what roles you see for yourself. People don’t know if you don’t do that, so they might not consider you. I’ve done that within the firm and I’ve done that within the IBA. I reached out to people within the IBA saying that I wanted to become an officer in their committee. They cannot always accommodate you, but if you don’t speak up, they don’t know that you're interested to start with. 

Finally, don’t shy away from taking on challenging roles, especially when they’re outside your comfort zone, because that’s how growth happens. You have to push the boundaries of what you think is possible. 

SC: Thank you, Carola. Those are brilliant forms of advice for lawyers at all stages. There’s always opportunities to take on new things and to rise and have visibility, even if you’re several years in, nothing’s too late. So that’s fantastic to hear, and I really appreciate your time today. It’s been wonderful speaking with you. Thank you, Carola. 

CVDB: Thank you.